Zomer2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één motor

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Zomer2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één motor

Post by Stratofreighter »

...ja, hier zijn toch nog wel wat vragen over gekomen -en nog te stellen...
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/smar ... ng-engine/ :? :shock:
Engine of a SmartWings Boeing 737-800 shuts down in-flight,
crew continues to Prague for another 2 hours and 20 minutes on remaining engine
..het wordt nog mooier :shock: :evil: :
Crew didn’t mention to air traffic control that they were flying on one engine
...ja ja... :roll:
“It was safe to operate,” the airline told Czech newspapers
...diverse andere nieuwsbronnen-links via
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/smar ... ng-engine/
Last edited by Stratofreighter on 14 Sep 2019, 20:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 22aug2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by Avgeek »

Het is ook geen ETOPS kist, dan zou je deze actie nog enigszins goed kunnen praten. Rare manier van handelen van de crew, tenzij de airline ze dit opdroeg te doen.

Kijk nu al uit naar de onderzoeksresultaten en de reden hiervan :D
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Re: 22aug2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by Alpha Kilo One »

Ben vooral heel benieuwd naar de consequenties........
"Nix bliev wie it es"
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Re: 22aug2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by 747classic »

Avgeek wrote:Het is ook geen ETOPS kist, dan zou je deze actie nog enigszins goed kunnen praten. Rare manier van handelen van de crew, tenzij de airline ze dit opdroeg te doen.

Kijk nu al uit naar de onderzoeksresultaten en de reden hiervan :D
Heeft niets met ETOPS te maken, geldt voor alle 2 motorige vliegtuigen.
QRH is erg duidelijk. : land at nearest suitable airport.
De captain is altijd verantwoordelijk, elke SOP afwijking zal volledig gemotiveerd moeten worden.
Ook al zou de airline deze uitwijkprocedure voorstellen, de captain blijft verantwoordelijk. Operations en Maintenance hebben beiden geen beslissingsbevoegdheid, slechts een adviserende rol.
Bovendien schijnt niet aan ATC te zijn gemeld dat er N-1 werd gevlogen, de volgende "aviation" doodzonde.
Maar het schijnt een "high ranking" vlieger te zijn geweest, misschien iets te veel achter het bureau gezeten. :roll:
On a twin, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
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Re: 22aug2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by Wildpicture »

Uiteraard kun je op 1 motor ook vliegen. Maar je backup is weg. Je neemt dus bewust een risico. En in de luchtvaart neem je nou juist geen vermijdbare risico's, zeker niet met passagiers.

Deze vlieger loopt (hopelijk) een groot risico zijn brevet te verliezen. En terecht. Dit is niet te rechtvaardigen. Dit keer ging alles goed. Maar het had ook heel anders kunnen lopen.
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Re: 22aug2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by B767-300ER »

@747 classic:
Dat hij ATC niet heeft ingelicht lijkt me stug. Volgens mij was hij namelijk circa 12000ft lager gaan vliegen? Of heb ik het nou mis?
Van 36.000 naar 24.000 ft. Dat zou zonder reden toch nooit door ATC geaccepteerd worden?

Passende handtekening trouwens ;)
All times are local times!

Regards, N.
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Re: 22aug2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by michel N »

@B767-300ER:
Marc, an air traffic controller working at the Budapest ACC commented on the article published on The Aviation Herald: “I was in contact with this A/C when they overflew Hungary. Not a word did they mention about engine failure we were informed about a “technical issue”. That is in most cases an air con failure for the 737 to fly at 240 or 250. So they came in at FL240 as they reached the Austrian border we sent them to Vienna Approach.

10 minutes later they called us back to inquire us why we haven’t told them about the engine failure. It turned out that the failure was announced over Prague, Vienna then called us back but we didn’t know either. Serbians were also unaware and I also asked my colleague who was working at KFOR (Kosovo) airspace – it is also operated from Budapest – but he didn’t know either.
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Re: 22aug2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by Stratofreighter »

michel N wrote:@B767-300ER:
Marc, an air traffic controller working at the Budapest ACC commented on the article published on The Aviation Herald: “I was in contact with this A/C when they overflew Hungary. Not a word did they mention about engine failure we were informed about a “technical issue”. That is in most cases an air con failure for the 737 to fly at 240 or 250. So they came in at FL240 as they reached the Austrian border we sent them to Vienna Approach.

10 minutes later they called us back to inquire us why we haven’t told them about the engine failure. It turned out that the failure was announced over Prague, Vienna then called us back but we didn’t know either. Serbians were also unaware and I also asked my colleague who was working at KFOR (Kosovo) airspace – it is also operated from Budapest – but he didn’t know either.
...en nog wat:
I think that tells a lot about this airline.
And just to add: This evening I had 2 A/C in 20 minutes from this operator on my frequency cruising at 250
so it's not so unusual to see the like that.
...Simon van de Avherald heeft contact gehad met deze Marc.
Hij is "the real deal".

Deze dame ook, waarschijnlijk, na een korte internet zoektocht:
https://www.facebook.com/Aeronews.ro/po ... %22R%22%7D
they did declare pan pan though,
I worked app control in Prague that day..
we got the info from prague acc, when the acft was entering our FIR..

we asked repeatedly then, if they need any assistance, or full emg, they said no assistance required, BUT decleared pan pan,
so we had to do the local stby for them..

non of us working app in that time had any idea for how long they were in that one engine flight though..
Een hardnekkig gerucht gaat dat een "managementpiloot" de captain was.
De term "Chief pilot" gaat rond, zou interne informatie zijn binnen het bedrijf.
Smartwings schijnt in bepaalde kringen een slechte reputatie te hebben gekregen.
Dan helpt dit ook niet echt :roll:
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Re: 22aug2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by Stratofreighter »

http://avherald.com/h?article=4cbe8434&opt=0
last updated Monday, Aug 26th 2019 16:34Z

On Aug 26th 2019 Czechia's Civil Aviation Authority told Czech media that the aircraft did not land at the nearest suitable airport
although required by standard operating procedures and regulations.

Between Samos and Prague there were several suitable airports nearer than Prague.

The CAA pledged: "Therefore, in cooperation with its partners, the Civil Aviation Authority,
across specialized services, collects available information,
evaluates it and takes action after evaluation.

Whether this will result in an administrative proceeding with the commander,
the company, or even the filing of a criminal complaint cannot be predicted at the moment,
CAA will make every effort to prevent a similar scenario from happening again.

In particular, our goal is to rectify the system."

Czechia's UZPLN (Accident Investigation Unit) is also going to investigate the occurrence.

On Aug 26th 2019 The Aviation Herald received information,
that the CVR was already overwritten by the subsequent flights,
the FDR data of the occurrence flight however could be downloaded successfully.
Lees ook maar de reacties op
http://avherald.com/h?article=4cbe8434&opt=0

Tussen de "wanna-bee reacties" zit ook interessante informatie. :|
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Re: 22aug2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by Stratofreighter »

http://avherald.com/h?article=4cbe8434&opt=0
last updated Friday, Sep 13th 2019 11:30Z

On Sep 13th 2019 The Aviation Herald learned
that an internal investigation conducted by Smartwings identified there was no systemic fault, but a crew error.

The captain of the flight, at that time head of flight operations of Smartwings,
is no longer head of flight operations,
his deputy has now taken that position.

The captain continues to fly for the airline and maintains privileges as instructor, examiner and TRE.

Czechia's CAA is determined to ensure that such a decision is not taken again in the future and
pledges very harsh penalties.

Surrounding nations also show significant interest in the ongoing investigation,
revocations of overflight permits are being discussed.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4cbe8434&opt=0
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Re: Zomer2019: B737 met 170 pax vloog Athene-Praag met één m

Post by Stratofreighter »

http://avherald.com/h?article=4cbe8434&opt=0
last updated Friday, Jul 24th 2020 05:52Z
The sequence of events:

- according to the Defect Logbook entry 107847 the fuel pump was running dry before the incident flight

- operation of the fuel pump running dry during the incident flight without fuel as lubricant

- shutdown of the engine and subsequent loss of the propulsion unit

- obvious disregard and violation of applicable Operation Manual Air Traffic Procedures
as well as applicable regulations, provisions and safety recommendations

- defective determination of a suitable aerodrome for safe landing
with a failed engine following fuel pump failure

- poor implementation of fuel policy

- the pilot in command did not follow the principles of Cockpit Resource Management
while performing the QRH's non-normal checklist (NNC) procedures
and thus made it impossible
for the first officer to participate effectively in the decision making process

- failure to complete the relevant NNC QRH procedure point 10 "plan to land at the nearest suitable airport",
the commander avoided the obligation to make a safe landing at the nearest suitable aerodrome
as specified by the aircraft manufacturer's QRH and FCTM valid in commercial air transport

- it can not be satisfactorily demonstrated, but neither reliably ruled out,
that the decisions made by the aircraft commander
and at the same time the flight director of the operator
were influenced by economic aspects.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4cbe8434&opt=0
The commander had accumulated 20,900 hours total flight time,
was flight instructor and flight examiner
and was flight director of his operator for more than 15 years.

As such he had great aviation knowledge and experience.

He had approved binding documents like OM, QRH, FCTM, FCOM for his operator.

It is thus difficult to understand that during one flight he ignored, violated and denied the obligations
resulting from the binding OM, QRH, FCTM and FCOM as well as regulations and safety recommendations.

The decision making process by the commander did not proceed according to the defined QRH NNC procedures.

It was not possible to satisfactorily assess the influence of the corporate attitude and management culture
onto the decision making process.

It was also not possible to determine satisfactorily whether and how economic aspects affected the commander's decisions.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4cbe8434&opt=0

De Tsjechische autoriteiten zijn nog steeds niet klaar met hem. :|
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