Falcon Autumn 2022 opinions

[patrick dirksen]

Good morning,

As far as I understand, the Americans are leaving for home today.
Can someone confirm that?

See all earlier speculation on this subject.... So far there are rumours they go and there are rumours they stay, and nobody has given a source yet.

[Bennie]

Good morning,

As far as I understand, the Americans are leaving for home today.
Can someone confirm that?

See all earlier speculation on this subject.... So far there are rumours they go and there are rumours they stay, and nobody has given a source yet.

Through a usually well informed source I received the info that the Yanks wanted a larger 'say' in the planning/execution of the exercise which was not granted and would result in their leave. They also were not so amused that some ops were close to the crowd...

[Daan Westenberg]

Indeed has turned south, so assumed going home?

How far I heard, yes, its amazing to see how much power the Americans always want in such exercises as these, oh well we can't change anything about it anyway..

[wonju666]

Welcome to the logic of military operations where things tend to change and no plan survives first contact. First of all, none of us has any clue about any valid operational considerations the Americans might have for leaving now. Given tensions in Europe USAREUR has a pretty tight training and exercise schedule (remember that scarce assets such as combat helicopters are always in high demand) so IMO, as a contributing unit to this exercise, 12 CAB is fully entitled to leave at this stage, something which surely has been coordinated with the lead unit for Falcon Autumn, the NLD Air Manoeuvre Brigade.

[patrick dirksen]

This is going off topic, but of course they are entitled to leave whenever they want. But that is not the issue here. What was said is that they planned to stay the whole exercise, but decided different because they didn't get enough influence to their liking, which has nothing to do with operational commitments. However, on the other hand I have also heard others say they only ever intended to participate until today/tomorrow in the first place. Again, rumours rumours rumours.....

[wonju666]

Regarding the Americans' supposed attempt at trying to influence anything, that's just an assumption. And even if this were true, the utter lack of flying activities 12-15 Nov might explain why they see little training value in staying. What I am trying to say here is none of us knows in detail about 12 CAB's operational and other commitments, whether there has been any recent change and what priorities they have. Perhaps instead of complaining the aviation enthusiast community has reason to be thankful 12 CAB was willing to send such a relatively large aviation contingent in the first place, all this due to a MoU between 11 AMB and 12 CAB. Let's face it, to a large extent the Americans are filling the void which is caused right now by NLD DHC transitioning to CH-47F, AH-64E, SOF Air tasking.

[patrick dirksen]

I think we all agree there could be numerous reasons for the Americans to leave early. Again that was not the point, but never mind. However I don't really see people "complaining" as you say, I only see lots of speculation both on whether they will go home early or not and on the reason they will go early (if they indeed do that).

Saying we spotters should be thankfull because an army is sending helicopters to an exercise sounds a bit strange to me, but NATO members should be thankfull that armies are willing to exercise and if necessary send troops to conflicts. The importance of this has been underestimated for years (about the only thing Trump was right on in my opinion). The fact that so many NATO countries now finally increase their spending on defence is something most spotters will appreciate I am sure, if not because of politics then because of the extra aircraft and helicopters they can go after. And that is in the end what this hobby, and this messageboard, are about.

[Richard from Rotterdam]

Like earlier comments stated: the Americans would only stay until Friday 11th November, so no premature departure from the exercise.

[Fink123]

All americans left.

[frank kramer]

It's not that I would like to add to the discussion, but I think the perspective here is somewhat missing. AFAIK, the exercise was mounted by and on behalf of the Luchtmobiele Brigade (Air Mobile Brigade). So it's THEIR scenario's that are leading for the exercise. The helicopters play a (big) part in that, but are in themselves not the leading factor in the exercise, even though we spotters see that in a different light. And it might well be the case that, whatever assets are required in the final week, it was no longer necessary to deploy the US helo's any further.