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With a setup like that you can be sure that 20% won't show up on the battlefield after the call came and adversaries are well aware of that... You need full commitment from every member to make an alliance work.patrick dirksen wrote: ↑26 Jan 2023, 19:41 Potato, potato, the effect is still the same: one country (or dictator) can block a membership. And indeed I understand the idea behind it, but in my opinion it would be better to have for example an 80% majority to decide. That way it is impossible for one guy like Erdogan to held the whole of NATO hostage.
I couldn't agree more....Wildpicture wrote: ↑27 Jan 2023, 10:58 The problem with Turkey is that this government (Erdogan) is not fully committed to NATO. He is only fully committed to himself and his ego. For his own political gains, he doesn't mind offending other allies. He is just as comfortable doing business with Putin as he is with his allies. He is like a little child that really, no REALLY, wants to have candy while going to the supermarket with his mother. Anyone not agreeing with him is a terrorist and put in jail.
The fact that he bought the S400 system from the Russians is completely crazy. Now he is holding all NATO countries hostage with his ridiculous claims about meeting his (domestic) demands before accepting Finland and Sweden (normal decent non-corrupt democratic countries) as new members. The rest of NATO is so afraid of him that they let themselves be bullied. I know the US needs the Turkish bases and the country makes a nice buffer, but they should really take their gloves of with him.
As Wildpicture said as well, I am not too convinced (to put it mildly) that Erdogan would go to the battlefield for any other country anyway. Not for his neighbour Greece, which is also a NATO member, but not for any other one either. I do understand your reasoning (unlike you do with mine it seems), but I don't agree with it. Too much power for dictators is never a good idea. And Erdogan certainly is one of those.With a setup like that you can be sure that 20% won't show up on the battlefield after the call came and adversaries are well aware of that... You need full commitment from every member to make an alliance work.
While I agree with most of your post note that it wasn't completely uncommon to buy Russian weapon systems or accept them as debt payments over the past few decades. Note that Greece and Cyprus purchased S-300's in the past while numerous countries continued to do business with the Russian to keep equipment bought in the Cold War era operational or even upgrade them with newer Russian systems.Wildpicture wrote: ↑27 Jan 2023, 10:58 The problem with Turkey is that this government (Erdogan) is not fully committed to NATO. He is only fully committed to himself and his ego. For his own political gains, he doesn't mind offending other allies. He is just as comfortable doing business with Putin as he is with his allies. He is like a little child that really, no REALLY, wants to have candy while going to the supermarket with his mother. Anyone not agreeing with him is a terrorist and put in jail.
The fact that he bought the S400 system from the Russians is completely crazy. Now he is holding all NATO countries hostage with his ridiculous claims about meeting his (domestic) demands before accepting Finland and Sweden (normal decent non-corrupt democratic countries) as new members. The rest of NATO is so afraid of him that they let themselves be bullied. I know the US needs the Turkish bases and the country makes a nice buffer, but they should really take their gloves of with him.
Yes, and I am afraid when push comes to shove, Erdogan will not commit. Definately not for their neighbour Greece, but also not for other NATO members. Hopefully it will never get to that though!Richard from Rotterdam wrote: ↑28 Jan 2023, 13:30 When push comes to shove Turkey has the second largest military of NATO so in any eventual war NATO gets dragged into, we will definitely need the Turks to commit their troops and weapons.
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