KLu Apaches against Somali pirates?

[Glidepath]

@ Glidepath:

once submerged, . Would the crew really get out of a lynx cockpit easier

ABSOLUTLY TRUE butI think once submerged it will not make a difference but before it submerges the lynx is equipped with a far more effective floatation device than the apache ( which floatation device?), so if the lynx crew is not willing to wait until the lynx submerges they first can smoke a big sigar wait until the fat lady sings and then embark their liferaft. The apache crew will have to be a fair bit quicker and better skip the much appreciated sigar ( won't light under water anyway )

I do not readily recommend smoking for starters, let alone in the pits black night at the ocean with armed gung-ho pirates at close range, whilst fuel and armed weapons, ammo and high explosives are on board, disregarding the type of helo.
Then again: The flames of an after battle all out explosion would make a fine beakon for the C-SAR Apache. (which incidentally was also a proven (land based!) tactic by the tinkering Britons of the AAC and which was indeed something even I can take my hat off for.)

[Piet Luijken]

Does the marInes hueycobra has floating devices? I think not.

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[Thermal]

Does the marInes hueycobra has floating devices? I think not.

Good point. AFAIK they do not.

[SquAdmin]

I don't think the Cobra has them although it would surprise me if they can be fitted to the skids (like our AB412's).
Question is: does it matter? USMC are invasion troops, so they will often operate close to the shore. VVD suggests to use Apaches at sea, that's a whole different ball game. Better use armed NH-90's for that...

[Glidepath]

yah, you know your stuff, some littoral warfare, blasting the hell out of coastal defences en securing a bridehead. Floaters would make them heavier., besides, marines can swim. or are considered expendible.

but almost any helo can be retro-fitted a such. I would put possibly them on the wheels of the 64s.

[jp 74]

but almost any helo can be retro-fitted a such. I would put possibly them on the wheels of the 64s.

Then you would get a Monster Apache io a monster truck, that would be a sight a apache with very big weels

[FISHER01]

marines can swim, but i don't think they can fly a AH-64D (yet)

[PilotoRico]

We all remember well how succesfull the US was in Somalia back in the '90's

Dutch Apache pilots are far from trained to do such operations against pirates over sea.... it's another stupid idea to lose man lives.

Cheers

[Wildpicture]

Dutch Apache pilots are far from trained to do such operations against pirates over sea.... it's another stupid idea to lose man lives.

I don't agree. Apaches can use their sensors to locate "enemy" boats. Using their fire-power against the pirates is not dangerous for the Apache pilots but certainly for the pirates. A few of their boats ripped to pieces by the Apache guns will send a very clear message. You can be assured they will all know very quickly!

As to Apaches flying over sea without floatation devices, no carrier based jets have them either. I know jets have ejections seats and the Apache only has ejectable window panels. But it also has twin engines.

Using Apaches in a naval role has been tested by both the US and the UK. It may require some modifications and (a lot of?) additional training, but it can be done.

[PilotoRico]

As to Apaches flying over sea without floatation devices, no carrier based jets have them either. I know jets have ejections seats and the Apache only has ejectable window panels. But it also has twin engines.

Yeah right, that's why the US bought Apaches for their Navy/Marines! The thing is, that you should not use AIR FORCE in naval operations, period. Before the Dutch have trained their crew in oversea combat, then we already are living far into 2012. Let's face the fact, we have enough with putting the AH-64 into combat in Afghanistan, leave naval operations to the navy. that's my point of view.

Cheers

[sijm]

We have this formidable and very expensive weapons platform called Apache. So why not make use of our taxpayers investments?

Using Apaches in a naval role has been tested by both the US and the UK. It may require some modifications and (a lot of?) additional training, but it can be done.

Of course we could install floatation devices to Apaches, equip the rotors with explosive bolts so ejection seats can be installed, apply anti-corrosion materials to them, learn marines how to fly and prepare naval vessels for Apache operations (I may have overlooked one or two minor issues...). But that's not the point. The original point the politician made of sending off Apaches to fight pirates was because....we have them and they can be deployed relatively cheaply and on short notice, he made it look very simple which it is not.

Cheers.

[Wildpicture]

The thing is, that you should not use AIR FORCE in naval operations, period.

Why not? Globally there are lots and lots of Air Force units involved with naval operations. Most anti-shipping strike aircraft are landbased and part of an air force unit, even though they fly over water. I think this is rather sortsighted to make this difference.

[Wildpicture]

Of course we could <snip>learn marines how to fly

In the Netherlands the Marines do not have an air arm or pilots. That was part of the Navy (of which the marines are also a part). Though the Apaches perform most missions in close support of the Army, they are operated by the Air Force and flown by air force pilots. At the moment all helicopters (including the former Navy helicopters) are operated by the Defence Helicopter Command which is a joint services command.

[ehusmann]

Wildpicture, sorry to say, but you seem to be totally missing the point. Look at the last point sijm made. THAT is what is going on here. Not if it could be done. Of course it could be done. Just as we could ask the US if we could have one of their surplus carriers, fill it up with some of their surplus Hornets and shoot some of their surplus old ammunition at the pirates. But that will not happen either, or will it?

Erwin

[Glidepath]

but almost any helo can be retro-fitted a such. I would put possibly them on the wheels of the 64s.

Then you would get a Monster Apache io a monster truck, that would be a sight a apache with very big weels

yess, You' ve got the picture but not before they are inflated,
so
in everyday life they would just be hoppping around merely with a bulbous extention to the wheels. (and one pop-out float on the tail),
nice to see, but not very spectacular...
until someone or somethings 'hits the switch' in distress or
'accidentelly' ........