Image: Alenia Aermacchi to develop new jet trainer

[Stratofreighter]

http://www.aleniaaermacchi.it/en-US/Med ... 202013.jpg is quite a large format picture...

Alenia Aermacchi and the Secretariat General of Defence/National Armaments Directorate of the Italian Ministry of Defence have signed an agreement to jointly define the operational specifications and collaborate on the development of a new basic-advanced trainer,
the M-345 HET (High Efficiency Trainer) and expected to enter service between 2017-2020.

The new HET will be a further development of the M-345 jet trainer,
the latest solution proposed by Alenia Aermacchi for the basic-advanced phase of military pilot training.

The avionics system of the M-345 HET,
through a significant containment of acquisition and operation costs,
aims to offer a cheaper and more effective solution in the training of military pilots compared with the current advanced turboprop solutions which,
although sharing the same weight class of the M-345 HET and similar on-board equipment,
provide only limited performance and training effectiveness.

The M-345 HET will be equipped with a turbofan engine in the 1.600 kg (3,500 lb) thrust class and will offer long endurance and high load factors between +7/-3,5 g.

Furthermore, it will feature state-of-the-art avionics, including a HUD (Head Up Display) in the front cockpit and a repeater in the rear cockpit and multi-function digital displays for both pilot stations and HOTAS (Hands On Throttle-And-Stick) controls.

The new trainer will be designed to guarantee a training syllabus perfectly aligned with that of the advanced and pre-operative M-346, starting from the elevated similarity between the two cockpits that will allow for the interoperability in joint training missions.

http://www.aleniaaermacchi.it/en-US/Med ... ainer.aspx

[Basman]

Isn't this just a case of 'same old =censored= with new flies on it'? Or in Dutch 'Oude wijn in nieuwe zakken'? It looks a lot like an S211 with new stickers....

Bas

[Lex Nasa]

Yes it is.... First flight 1981, upgraded to S311, JPATS competition, armed versions, few customers as Philippines, Singapore and Haiti, now M345....they keep on trying, but it seems a bit chanceless.....

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[PilotoRico]

Well, if you read the full article... this aircraft is far from what it was as original in the early 1980's. It seems that the Italian Air Force will consider this aircraft as MB.339 replacement. If so, sure many more will be exported to smaller nations.

Ciao!

[Basman]

this aircraft is far from what it was as original in the early 1980's.

An F-16C-52+ is far from the original F-16A from the 70's, but they still call it an F-16. So calling this 'developing a new jet trainer' sounds a lot like clever marketing to me.

Bas

[PilotoRico]

this aircraft is far from what it was as original in the early 1980's.

An F-16C-52+ is far from the original F-16A from the 70's, but they still call it an F-16. So calling this 'developing a new jet trainer' sounds a lot like clever marketing to me.

Bas

Yeah, right... but if you put a F-16C Block 60 next to a original 1980 built F-16A.... you will see a totally other aircraft, or are they exact the same

Cheerio

[Basman]

I am not saying that the F-16's coming of the production line nowadays are the same as the ones from the 70's/80's. However, they are an ongoing development of a proven, reliable and widely distributed airframe. And notwithstanding all the upgrades, modifications and new systems it has received, it is still called an F-16 by its makers.

Alenia in the contrary is trying to push a 70's design onto the market that hasn't been very succesful in the first place.
Of the 60 that have been sold as S211, most (if not all) have been retired. Then they improved it to S211A (no sales), M311 (no sales), M345 (no sales) and now M345HET. Whatever they call it, it is still based on the original S211 design. So calling this 'developing a new jet trainer' seems rather over the top to me. I am just wondering who they are trying to fool.

Bas

[jp 74]

I've seen this ac at Venegono last year (juli) doing engine tests but it was to far away for a picture.
So i'm a bit surprised that this is news....

[Erik_7Xi]

I'm confused though -why would Alenia market two different jet trainers? The M346 and now the M345.. unless the 345 is a lot cheaper than the 346?

[Basman]

The M346 is far more advanced than the M345, they are pitching the M345 against turboprop trainers like the PC-9, KT-1 and EMB314.
But if the Italians would buy them, I wonder how their training syllabus would look like....something like this maybe:
1. Glider for selection?
2. SF260
3. M345
4. MB339CD?
5. M346

That looks like a loooooong way. Or would the M345 replace the MB339's? The CD's are not that old yet.

Bas

[PilotoRico]

The M346 is far more advanced than the M345, they are pitching the M345 against turboprop trainers like the PC-9, KT-1 and EMB314.
But if the Italians would buy them, I wonder how their training syllabus would look like....something like this maybe:
1. Glider for selection?
2. SF260
3. M345
4. MB339CD?
5. M346

That looks like a loooooong way. Or would the M345 replace the MB339's? The CD's are not that old yet.

Bas

If people take the time to read a full article they know that the aim is to replace the MB339 in Italian Air Force with the M345. In the first place the "old" MB.339A, later the CD version as well. That sounds not too bad....
www.flightinternational.com is the source.

PilotoRico

[Richard from Rotterdam]

When you have an existing airframe that you fit out with new avionics etc, it won't be too expensive to develop a "new" jet trainer (compared to a new design from scratch). So you can't blame the Italians for trying.

[Basman]

The link posted by the topic opener doesn't mention the replacement of MB339's. But I asked about the replacement of the 339CD's too in my previous post, this would only surprise me as the MB339CD's are still so young.

When you have an existing airframe that you fit out with new avionics etc, it won't be too expensive to develop a "new" jet trainer (compared to a new design from scratch). So you can't blame the Italians for trying.

Oh I don't blame 'em for anything, I just find it kind of funny how they keep trying to convince everybody how new this jet is. Note that the first flight of the original S211 was 32 years ago...
Well, at least their government is still buying 'local' products to help out the local industry . It sometimes makes me wonder how they manage to get away with that, if you look at all the rules for European Tenders that should be applied (no, I am not a big fan of those!).

Bas (married to a true Italian ragazza, by the way)

[PilotoRico]

This one does mention the posibility for MB339 replacement....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... et-387406/

By the way, the Hawk is even older from design.... and still market as totally new concept!!! So what is the difference??? The M345 might look like the S.211 from outside, the avionics, displays and engine are far from that. Hope this time they will see some cliënts... even when it is the AMI itself.

PilotoRico

[Basman]

Thanks for the link. However it says:

For the Italian air force, this could see the type serve as a successor for its older Alenia Aermacchi MB-339s.

So no specification if the CD's would be involved as well.

And regarding the Hawk: you are exactly proving my point. The Hawk is NOT marketed as totally new concept, they still call it the Hawk. And if I may quote from BAe Systems own website: 'The world's most successful and proven Advanced Jet Trainer aircraft' and 'Nearly 1000 sold or ordered'. So whereas the Italians are trying to mask the ancestry of the M345, the British are (rightfully) using it for their marketing.

Bas