Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

ImageSocial talk and other non-aviation topics including photos. Note this a FUN area!

Forum rules
Image
Post Reply
Kleintje Pils
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 3069
Joined: 20 May 2003, 18:46
Location: Leusden
Contact:

Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

Post by Kleintje Pils »

Hmm so Khadaffi now has something to trade for the 2 Mirages...
Remco Donselaar

Image Image
User avatar
Polecat
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 5037
Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 13:58
Type of spotter: Omnivore
Subscriber Scramble Magazine: JA!
Location: The Middle East of The Netherlands

Re: Lynx + crew kidnapped in Libya

Post by Polecat »

or a preserved Dutch Lynx in the Sirte Liberation Museum..

Just hope the guys get to go home soon..
I have never drunk milk, and I never will . . . .
User avatar
mwpeters
Scramble Addict
Scramble Addict
Posts: 1626
Joined: 07 Dec 2002, 15:39
Location: Holland
Contact:

Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

Post by mwpeters »

Formally seen the Dutch military attacked the Libyian sovereignity, as no UN mandate is active at the moment which allows other countries to "invade" Libyia. So the Libyians are allowed to capture our men and take them in custody untill the case is formally investigated. Despite this, I hope the military people can come back very soon.
User avatar
phkza
Scramble Addict
Scramble Addict
Posts: 2244
Joined: 21 Nov 2005, 22:38
Type of spotter: Civil > Pics or it didn't happen!

Re: Lynx + crew kidnapped in Libya

Post by phkza »

That's bad news! Hopefully there will be a diplomatic solution to get the airmen back.
User avatar
Glidepath
Scramble Addict
Scramble Addict
Posts: 1581
Joined: 25 Mar 2006, 12:04

Re: Lynx + crew kidnapped in Libya

Post by Glidepath »

mwpeters wrote:Formally seen the Dutch military attacked the Libyian sovereignity, as no UN mandate is active at the moment which allows other countries to "invade" Libyia. So the Libyians are allowed to capture our men and take them in custody untill the case is formally investigated. Despite this, I hope the military people can come back very soon.
indeed,
and : 'kidnapped' is thus NOT the right word.
Rather say they are taken captive, perhaps even officially arrested after violating Lybian airspace in an millitary air vehicle and landing during an uprise / rebellion, in a time civil war can not be excluded in the near future. It is just like that.
So far the Germans and Britons have been lucky with their transport missions in Lybia.


Lybia will get the jets back anyway. sooner or later, with or without mr. Khadaffi as head of state.
For the Lynx, if still intact, it is not that certain. (local sitution offers no guarantee to anyone or anything).


Do not be surprised if the crew is killed (immediately), heavilly interrogated or put on (mil.) swift (field) 'snelrecht' trail for espionage. The situation is not 'normal' and even that was no tea party for prisoners. (recall the doctors and nurses jailed there).
'Anything else' is 'luck' for those chaps and could prove that at least part of the (still rightful) government troops and police are well under (and in) control regarding law enforcement.

if anything: lessons to be learned for the dutch navy / dhc......
Last edited by Glidepath on 03 Mar 2011, 17:57, edited 1 time in total.
Hoera d'revolutie, 't is eindelijk zover', maar de nwe leiders blijken net zo autoritair
Propwash
Scramble Senior
Scramble Senior
Posts: 267
Joined: 23 Oct 2009, 08:38
Type of spotter: Female Crew
Location: Upper Dark Room

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya

Post by Propwash »

Typical "If it ain't Dutch, It ain't much" ;)

Rescuing people in hostile area with a 'antique' helicopter who you can hear from miles, isn't smart.
Last edited by Propwash on 03 Mar 2011, 11:29, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Thermal
Scramble Addict
Scramble Addict
Posts: 2020
Joined: 28 May 2003, 15:35
Type of spotter: F5
Location: Oxford (UK) & Utrecht (NL)

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya

Post by Thermal »

Unbelievable, the Brits successfully get hundreds of people out without the Lybians knowing it.
The Dutch have to pick up 2 (!!) people and f*ck up.
So far the Germans and Britons have been lucky with their transport missions in Lybia.
Lucky? I call it 'better prepared'

I really feel sorry for the crew since they can not be blamed but yet they are the ones taken prisoner.

Well done Dutch DoD! Talk about crappy intelligence. New you have given Kadaffi bargaining money. He can blackmail the Dutch government in not supporting new UN resolutions etc.

Bravo! :evil:
I always say a boy can learn more at an airport than at any school.
- Homer J Simpson -
User avatar
Maurice
Scramble Die-Hard
Scramble Die-Hard
Posts: 737
Joined: 13 Apr 2004, 23:07
Subscriber Scramble Magazine: Ja
Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya

Post by Maurice »

Thermal wrote:Unbelievable, the Brits successfully get hundreds of people out without the Lybians knowing it.
The Dutch have to pick up 2 (!!) people and f*ck up.
So far the Germans and Britons have been lucky with their transport missions in Lybia.
Lucky? I call it 'better prepared'

I really feel sorry for the crew since they can not be blamed but yet they are the ones taken prisoner.

Well done Dutch DoD! Talk about crappy intelligence. New you have given Kadaffi bargaining money. He can blackmail the Dutch government in not supporting new UN resolutions etc.

Bravo! :evil:
If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.
User avatar
Polecat
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 5037
Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 13:58
Type of spotter: Omnivore
Subscriber Scramble Magazine: JA!
Location: The Middle East of The Netherlands

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya

Post by Polecat »

Maurice wrote: If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.
true...

fact is however that something went horribly wrong and that we weren't able to match the success of the Brits... (for whatever reason(s))

It is also a fact that the outcome is uncertain, and that we can only hope these guys make it back home safely....
I have never drunk milk, and I never will . . . .
User avatar
ehusmann
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 5836
Joined: 03 Aug 2005, 14:34
Location: Loures, Portugal

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

Post by ehusmann »

Polecat wrote:fact is however that something went horribly wrong and that we weren't able to match the success of the Brits... (for whatever reason(s))
Fact is, we don´t even know that. This happened Sunday. We do not know how many (if any) the Dutch extracted before that, or after that. Also, we do not know if any British missions failed and if any British soldiers are being held.
And in the end, the mission can be seen as succesful, since the two Dutch people they were supposed to extract are in fact out of the country right now. That was the mission, it just went a little different.

Erwin
Image
User avatar
Richard from Rotterdam
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 2524
Joined: 09 Aug 2004, 12:38

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

Post by Richard from Rotterdam »

The differences between the British rescue missions and the Dutch one are obvious:

The British flew into an airfield in an area that is rebel-controlled. Even though they were shot at, that was by rebels who mistook the aircraft for Libyan military.

Sirte, where the Dutch crew went, is the one remaining Kaddafi stronghold after Tripoli. It sounds slightly naive to me that you are going to try to rescue people by slow flying helicopter in an area where you know government controlled militias patrol the streets.

The three crew we will probably see back in Holland in the not too distant future, but I guess we can consider the Lynx a write-off.
User avatar
Polecat
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 5037
Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 13:58
Type of spotter: Omnivore
Subscriber Scramble Magazine: JA!
Location: The Middle East of The Netherlands

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

Post by Polecat »

ehusmann wrote:
Polecat wrote:
And in the end, the mission can be seen as succesful, since the two Dutch people they were supposed to extract are in fact out of the country right now. That was the mission, it just went a little different.

Erwin
don't think nowadays anyone would consider a two-for-three swap successful, or even any mission where men have to be left behind...
I have never drunk milk, and I never will . . . .
User avatar
jp 74
Scramble Die-Hard
Scramble Die-Hard
Posts: 944
Joined: 23 Jun 2008, 15:02
Type of spotter: Fotografie
Subscriber Scramble Magazine: ja
Location: Den Bosch

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

Post by jp 74 »

Maybe a lesson learned fot the DoD that whitout a proper csar chopper and backup (fighters or gunship and special forces) a resue in a hostile country is nearly impossable.
If you decide to take a 3 crewed lynx for such a task you can expect trouble.
I feel sorry for the crew because they are probably in a horrable posistion and i hope they return home unharmed instead of a box.
Compromise is failure.
leonard van T
Scramble Die-Hard
Scramble Die-Hard
Posts: 711
Joined: 18 Jun 2010, 17:58
Type of spotter: nummers (soms ook foto)
Subscriber Scramble Magazine: ja
Location: Huizen

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya - Comments

Post by leonard van T »

In 1964 the Libyians also "captured" an MLD (Dutch navy) aircraft, a S-2 Tracker was flown to Libya by a mechanic !
we got that one back, so hopefully history repeats it self!

Leonard
User avatar
Stefan
Scramble Master
Scramble Master
Posts: 5437
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 12:56
Subscriber Scramble Magazine: Yes
Contact:

Re: Lynx + crew captured in Libya

Post by Stefan »

Maurice wrote:If you don't know anything about the situation, and you don't, than please don't judge like that.
Hear hear!!

Regards,
Stefan
Post Reply